Slash and gay rights

[Св.]

Замечательное, резкое, прямое и по делу открытое письмо.

So, like, I watch sports and stuff? And I really love watching football and I spend all my time talking about football and enjoying football games on TV and playing football games on my Playstation because, like, football gets me hot. But, like, if you actually play football? Dude, that's, like, sick and wrong and I think there should be laws that say nobody should ever actually play football 'cause people who would actually, like, do that thing of wearing pads and helmets and chasing a ball around a field goes against everything law and humanity stands for. I mean dude, what's wrong with you? (Источник и продолжение)

@темы: ыть!, *fandom, *slash, $ lgbt, $ rainbow, делюсь

Comments

[Хельга Винтер]

This was just great. Standing ovation.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер Yup. Second this.
I suppose it needs to be translated...

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., you're reading my mind. Wanna split it? ))

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер I'd better give it to you and then betaread, maybe - I have this huge deadline which goes far into next week and absolutely fries my brains.

But oh, this thing is perfect. I remember the holywar on this exact topic...

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., okay, I'll get to it over the weekend, then.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер Great!!!

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., well, the post 5 years old and all, but our fandom really has to hear this. Because it's true, after all.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер You know, I feel that our fandom is 5 or more years behind

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., more like 10 or even further, especially when it comes to civil rights issues.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер Ahha.
You know, I was thinking about that Slashcon panel, in the lines of LGBT issues in fics, but I suppose it has to be started with a definition of terms... and this definition is enough to take the whole hour.

BTW, I was wondering. I suppose that in most fandoms I read, the question of LGBT-rights is hushed in the story because the universe and/or the life on the characters isn't what you can call 'normal': they are supernatural, or assasins, or lead a double life (HP, WK, SPN, DW/TW and so on). In this situation, the legal rights aren't a prioruty issue. But I suppose you deal with more 'normal' fandoms, with all those crime shows; is the situation in fics the same or different?

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., well, discussion of the definition will take an hour or longer, that's for sure. But not having any working definition wouldn't do either, I guess. So maybe it's better to skip the discussion part - simply offer the deffinition and then go on to talking about the main topic. Although even that might take a while.

Well, come to think of it... I don't think I've read fic dealing with civil rights issues. There are fics dealing with becoming aware of one's sexual orientation; I've read a fic where the main couple had a kid and even got married, but that's about it. The thing is, out of the four crime show fandoms I'm currently involved with one way or another only two provide enough material for reference. I can't read slash fiction (or het, for that matter) on Criminal Minds, CSI slash is mostly no good and I'm not that interested in it anyway, so that leaves only Due South which is rather old (the show was cancelled in 1999) so there's little chance of civil rights issues being addressed in fic, and NCIS. And as far as I can tell these problems don't get discussed there either, even though the enviroment is very favourable: a federal agency dealing with crimes against navy and marine corps officers... One of the main characters is a former Marine and although he's often written as a bisexual I haven't seen any mention of "Don't ask, don't tell" policy or LGBT people being prohibited to serve in the armed forces in any fic I've read so far. So no, of the top of my head I'd say that the situation in these fandoms is pretty much the same as anywhere else.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер
I wasn't talking about the discussion of definitions. only about the queer-definitions itself

So no, of the top of my head I'd say that the situation in these fandoms is pretty much the same as anywhere else.

Yup, I see. It''s interesting... I was hoping 'real-life' fandoms will bring more material.
I've seen several homophobia-fics in Torchwood fandom, and also several marriage!fics which at least dealed with the appearance of civil union possibility, though they were more relationship-centered anyway. And I was actually looking for the stuff.
Maybe it's possible to ask somewhere if such stories exist. I's read them in CM and House M.D., even though I don't read these fandoms in general.

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., I don't read that much fanfiction so maybe I'm not qualified well enough to tell, anyway. But I guess - yeah, it's possible to ask this question at LJ or DW fandom commuities or maybe even address some people within community directly. I'll think about it.

So you're actually considering doing this panel, after all?

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер Yup, it will be great.
I checked the lgbtfest comm and was surprised that there is more stories in sci-fi fandoms than in realistic ones - or maybe so it seems to me.

You know, even if I won't do this panel, I'll write some meta about this.
I'm thinking about the panel. We need to discuss it, definitely

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., but sci-fi fandoms are more popular and always have been. And the most popular "real life" fandoms are usually based on shows that have a lot of humorous stuff in them or are basically not very serious and, therefore, too realistic. Like Due South or NCIS I mentioned above. There's far less fiction about CSI, Criminal Minds, Law & Order, ER, etc. I don't know how House M.D. fits in that, though.

Well, you're welcome any time )) E-mail, u-mail, comments - or even skype, btw. I usually have it running these days if my laptop is on. ))

[Таэлле]

*barging in* I've read a gen CM casefic where Prentiss comes out to her coworkers, and that's about it for LGBT issues as far as I know.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер As soon as I finish this deadline I have a very one-track mind lately. All those thought on the side are fine, but as soon as I try to think something serious...

Таэлле You're welcome
I've seen one CM fic at lgbt-fest, and it was about Prentiss (never read, but seen the prompt). Maybe it was the same fic...

[Таэлле]

Св. not sure; it was not on lgbt-fest I saw it (I only read one fic there - a HP one, about Luna Lovegood being transgender).

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., okay, that's fine. )) I've got to get to my work, too. )) I've been too distracted lately. ))

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер
Note about the panel: I wonder, if we do it, should we do it about LGBT or about queer issues? Queer is more complex - it inclides not only orientation and gender identification, but also alternate relationship lifestyles (bdsm, poly) and asexuals (which are currently included in LGBT more often than not).

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., that's a tough question. I'd choose "queer" because this term is more inclusive and, well, fandom is a diverse community when it comes both to characters and fans. But if we're going to have trouble defining LGBT-issues, defining "queer" would take even longer since most people haven't even heard the term, I suppose.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер I'd choose 'queer' too, for several reasons, including the fact that there are alternate lifestyles which are sometimes misunderstood in fanfiction (mostly d/s and poly). On the other hand, maybe they need their own panel. And if we do it, just listing the whole spectre of terms may take all the time...

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., well, yes, that's what I was talking about. )) Maybe we'd better start with simpler things, take it one step at a time.
The question is what we want this panel to be: an in-depth discussion (at least to some extent) or just an overview of the problems the writers might want to think about. In that case we could try to squeeze "queer" in. But it'll be rather superficial, I suppose.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер
Yup. Actually, I prefer in-depth to superficial...
If we want to discuss something in depth, I suppose we should concentrate on gay/lesbian/bisexual issues. It's not like we often see transgender in fics - they are mostly about cisgender people, so the issue may be important for a lot of ficwriter in ficreaders, but not for the stories.

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., so do I.
Yes, I guess, it's be better to concentrate on LGB. Trans (-gendered or -sexual) characters are rare and even genderswap and bodyswap fics are not very popular in ru-fandom as far as I can tell.

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер
Ahha.
Now I'm wondering is we have some examples of ff exploring those issues in Russian Because it is very possible that situation looks like "Description of GLB issues in FF: none"

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., well... come to think of it, yes, that's too likely. I remember discussing this on my diary couple of years ago. I'll look it up. I rember at least one person explaining why she doesn't address civil rights issues in her writing...

[Хельга Винтер]

Oh, btw, are we considering original slash fiction as well as ff?

[Св.]

Хельга Винтер
I'll try to look something up, too.
I suppose we include original fiction, too (though it's a bit vague for me).

[Хельга Винтер]

Св., btw, I remembered at least one example of Russian fanfiction trying to deal with civil rights issues; AlyonaSL in CSI: LV. She addressed the matters of marriage and adoption and general homophobia in several fics.